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Zvp roach warren timing

 by Seven

ZvP Roach Warren Timing

So everytime I play ZvP, I'd do the 18Roach Warren timing, to get them out early to help defend against zealot rushes. Then I'd expand and use one queen to slowly get my economy up. This strategy worked beautifully, but I'm not playing against great players. I was watching the Zotac Cup #5, and saw that Haypro used a much later Roach Warren against Protoss. I watched the finals first (because I love getting spoilered), and saw that he would get rushed early on. At first I thought it was because he had such a slow Roach Warren, but after watching his quarter finals ZvP games, I realized how powerful his build is.

If you haven't seen these games yet, I suggest watching this replay first. Basically, Haypro uses astute scouting intel to get the timing for his Roach Warren. Since he delays both his gas and Roach Warren, he gets his expansion, extra drones, and second Queen up.

39 food

With his great scouting intel, Haypro delays his Roach Warren to 39 food against Dreiven.

So the build follows this general rule:

10 overlord

14 pool

15 overlord

Once Pool finishes, Queen and four lings.

Expand to natural @ 300 minerals.


Let's note the differences at this point. Typical ZvP builds would either utilize a 14 fast expand, or a 14pool14gas18roachwarren.  The first build is way too economical, and generally Zerg players crumble to zealot harass (or just straight out die to a rush).  The second works great, but not if the Protoss turtles and get his natural, using Sentry force fields and his army to defend. 

Haypro uses his overlords and zerglings to scout his opponent. If he sees 1gate1core, he knows his opponent is going to tech, and not rush.  This allows him to delay his Roach Warren. He also delays his gas, because getting early ling speed would be silly if the Protoss just walls in with Zealots. What's most impressive is Haypro continually scouted with his slow lings, being able to survive zealots.

The inject larvae ability now forces the Zerg to always keep at least 200 minerals stockpiled.  Back in BW, a Zerg would be silly to stockpile that much money.  Many Zergs have carried this tradition, and basically the benefit of 14 or 15 pool builds is to that you can get a Queen and Roach Warren at the same time.  By delaying the Roach Warren, you save money to be able to spend with your 4 larvae pop out, as well as being able to afford the second Queen at your natural.

Haypro balances drone production and getting lings to take map control.  He pays attention to what the Protoss is doing, because he needs to react quickly if he sees a Zealot/Sentry push come out.  The great thing about his build, however, is that his excess drones and dual Queens allow him to make 8 larvae worth of lings in the even of the Protoss pushing out.  So when does he get his Roach Warren?

Well in the games I've seen, it's always around the time the Protoss makes his Robotics Facility (assuming he's going the Immortal push; obviously if he was going mass warpgates he would get the Roach Warren when he sees the gateways being put down).  One of the games Haypro played in the tournament, I think he didn't get a Roach Warren until about 30 supply (and he was all off of one gas!) with no Lair tech yet, just massing drones and lings.



Haypro's strength lies in his scouting and his defence.  He puts creep on all routes to his expansions, able to quickly grab his army into position if he needs to defend.  With the early drones (therefore extra minerals), he's able to pump Roaches off one gas and defend from any early battles. 

At this point, he slowly gets the rest of his gases, and techs with evo chambers and Hydralisks. Maybe even expanding to a third base.

In terms of upgrades, Haypro favors missile attack, simply because his economy allows him to put out lots of units.  Not having to worry about numbers, he opts for more attack power (which is a great idea).

So how does this build get beaten? Well in these games (Finals Game#3, Finals Game#2 and QF Game #1), the Protoss out-microed the Zerg with Sentry force-fields, despite the huge numbers of the Zerg (especially in the QF game).


You really do not want to be out microed by a Protoss. Those force fields might cost you the game.

Basically, this build has a small timing window: When Roaches aren't out yet, the Protoss can try to attack with an early push, where the Zerg can only defend with lings.  However, Haypro has such good scouting and macro, that he knows when that attack comes, and how to be able to defend from it.  It was really only Rogalos' micro that bested Haypro, using force-fields to do enough damage to his economy to be able to pull ahead.

Haypro also underestimates the strength of a small Protoss group of units (or perhaps he just didn't get a good enough scout on the number count). When he tries to attack the Protoss' expansions, he would get force fielded, and vice versa. Instead of running away, though (which I would've done), he stood his ground waiting for the force fields to go away.  He had a large number of Roaches, but he underestimated how strong a small group of Sentries were: throwing up more and more force fields while an Immortal shot the Roaches down.  Harsh losing battles like that cost Haypro the game, which brings us to the second way of defeating this build: Expanding and defending your expansions with good micro.  Rather than engage in the Zerg army on their creep, you force the Zerg to try and pressure at your own expansions.

wiped out

Haypro pretty much goes from 46 Roaches against 10 Sentries and 8 Immortals, to 20 Roaches against 8 Sentries and 8 Immortals. He also looses that expansion.

Alright that's it for me now. Thanks for reading my guides everyone! Comments are appreciated.

31 Mar 2010 | Comments (6)
Tags : roach warren  zvp  

Jame wrote (2010-04-07 09:24:04)

avatar Thor guide with a copper shield awardedguide with a copper shield awardedguide with a copper shield awardedguide with a copper shield awarded shields awarded

Very good guide indeed!

And very good comment once again, Buzzjuice, I liked the video too!

  0 up rate down rate

Buzzjuice wrote (2010-04-06 22:46:26)

avatar Reaper

A very nice and informative guide with plently of replays and pictures to look at.

The build order was quite direct and easy to follow. You explained each aspect of the build, including it's strengths, weaknesses and counters.

I just wanted to add another counter. Sentries are powerful with forcefields, but if you have a few sentries and combine them with Colluses, you have mass Roach BBQ on your hands. This is a game HD starcraft commented on: Artosis vs Voidwards. Artosis, as Zerg uses mass Roaches against Voidwards who replies in kind with sentries's Forcefields, and then creates Collusus. In this case, the Protoss is nearly on the same economic level as the Zerg.

+2 up rate down rate

Tabasco wrote (2010-04-04 21:11:00)

avatar Zergling

Excellent guide! These are the kind of in-depth and quality guides that I look for on this site. Extremely helpful, thanks man!

+2 up rate down rate

Seven wrote (2010-03-31 05:58:05)

avatar Brutalisk

Thanks for fixing Synapse

I usually do resize, but I was thinking the full screen would be easier to see. Didn't check to see if it was too wide.

  0 up rate down rate

Synapse wrote (2010-03-31 04:11:40)

avatar Zergling

Fixed Wink

Seven, For your next guides, just resize the picture when included in your guide. The guides have a maximum width atm , but we'll soon include an upload image feature that will resolve this issue Cool

+2 up rate down rate

Ssjgogeta wrote (2010-03-31 02:31:59)

avatar Zergling

Your pictures are a bit warped, but I kinda got your point anyways. Great guide, anyways!

  0 up rate down rate

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